In this pilot episode, join Brad as he talks through some observations he’s made about playing trajectories and what helps an ʻukulele player succeed. This includes things like finding your learning cadence, stigmas, practice, and building consistency.
Welcome to Live ʻUkulele – the podcast. Kinda like how they say “the musical,” except it’s a podcast. Anyways, gonna be taking this opportunity to talk to you folks about some different things related to the ʻukulele that are banging around in my head, hopefully give you some tips, and bring you some interviews with some of my awesome musician friends and people that you’ve probably actually heard of.
My name is Brad Bordessa, creator and content curator at Live ʻUkulele.com. And yeah, welcome. There are so many different things that I could cover in a podcast, but I started making a list and thinking about some different things I could talk about and, you know, it’s obviously a different medium from a Youtube lesson video, but in a way it’s also kind of beneficial in the sense that I’m not just sitting on camera talking the whole time. Which I kind of like to do because a lot of what I end up teaching people and talking to people about are kind of concept things and less related to the actual playing of the instrument. Because a lot of that you can figure out on your own and or you could find a teacher or find a tab or find a lesson. Whatever your resource may be. But as far as, like, how you think about music and how you think about the instrument, I feel like that’s where this format could become really more useful and a great way to share those kinds of ideas.
So I think in this first one I want to share with you my thoughts on setting yourself up for success when playing the ʻukulele. I get a lot of the same questions and concerns from my students and people who email me and have have different questions and a lot of the times it comes down to having the wrong kind of mental approach to the subject. It’s not that you’re playing it wrong or you’re necessarily doing the wrong thing, which is also part of it, but so often people get kind of caught up on pushing too hard and wanting to do too much, too fast. Like, for instance a friend of a friend was learning to play ʻukulele and she wanted to know if I had some tips and she was learning to play Happy Birthday and was kind of, like, frustrated with how she was playing it. But it turns out she’d only been playing for a week and so my first initial knee-jerk reaction is just like, “whoa chill out.” And I know I made a video on chilling out the other day, but I think I think that regulating your expectations – especially as a beginner – is one of the more important things you can do.
Anything that you in life are now accomplished at, like speaking English, or driving a car, or whatever the skill may be, these things took a while. They might have taken quite a long time. I mean think of all the hours you’ve put in to speaking English coherently. I’m talking into this mic right here and not really thinking about the actual mechanics of talking, but I’m able to do it because I’ve spoken English for, you know, tens and tens of thousands of hours. Same thing for ʻukulele, is you can’t expect that proficiency and that competence if you haven’t been doing it for super long. And so when a beginner comes up to me and they’re, like, frustrated about something, I kind of I kind of try and change their mindset to be a little bit more empathetic to themselves. I guess it’s like: you’re just starting, there’s nowhere to be really. It’s not like any of us are auditioning for a part, usually, when we pick up an ʻukulele – though I’m sure there are some out there who need to be the ʻukulele guy in the high school play or whatever the situation might be. But we’re doing it for ourselves most of the time, and if you’re not doing it for yourself, you know, hopefully you have a really good other reason, like doing it for a loved one who needs some musical support or something along those lines. But at the end of the day, you really need to be doing it for yourself. And so in playing the ʻukulele for yourself, you really need to be happy and finding the ways inside the music that you are playing and that you are able to produce, you need to find the happiness there. So kind of being hard on yourself for what you can’t do is nowhere near as useful as coming to terms with where you’re at now and being able to put the next step forward. Because really that’s all music is: it’s a journey, one step at a time, moving yourself forward.
So if you’ve been playing for a few months, you can play four or five chords well, and you play through some songs, but, you know, you’re not able to jump in and play maybe the solo arrangements that you want to, there’s no point in beating yourself up about that. Because you can either think of it as, “Oh, I suck. I can’t do this right now,” or you can think of it as, “Here’s my goal. I’m going to establish that I realize that I’m not in a place to make the physical motions that are actually going to produce these sounds yet. but I know what I want to do so I can move towards that.” I think that’s really important, is being able to to back away and, you know, give yourself the grace to chill out especially in these times with COVID going around and everybody trying to stay home as much as possible. You know, my mom has been really supportive of me and giving myself the grace to just, you know, chill out a bit, Brad. There’s only so much that you can do and we’re all we’re all making efforts to sort of stay mentally well and if that means just having a kind of a quiet day where you don’t do much and you watch Netflix or you read a book, that’s cool. So we kind of need to bring the same thing into ʻukulele study.
Another thing that doesn’t do anybody any services is also the fact that there’s kind of a negative stigma around being a beginner on the ʻukulele. And that’s too bad because, really, there’s no time when you’re playing music or learning an instrument that is really easier. I know beginners don’t think of it that way, but it’s not a bad thing to be a beginner because there’s so much to do, there’s so much to play, so much to learn that it can seem really intimidating. But if you step back and look at it, it’s really the easiest phase to pass through. Because all we’re doing is moving through these different levels and, you know, “levels” is kind of a construct to quantify our progress. Which is kind of dumb in itself, but being a beginner means that you have more things to work on than the next guy, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Because I will tell you that, as an intermediate or an advanced player, there are times when you get stuck in, say a rut, right? A learning rut, that’s what people often often call it, and they don’t know what to do next, they don’t know what to work on, and that’s a really frustrating place to be. But a beginner doesn’t have that problem – hopefully – because there are so many things that they could work on and, because of that, being a beginner is a really beautiful thing and part of the reason I don’t really get ever bored teaching beginners. You know, certainly it’s rewarding to bring more advanced concepts to students, but at the same time, to help a beginner and get them playing their first few chords or teach them a picking melody for the first time; it’s so much more gratifying because kind of on the progression curve, that has a much bigger impact than learning to do something more technical. If you can get a beginner playing their first five chords, you know, you have taken them 30 percent of the way into their musical journey, whereas if you teach a player, you know, a cool jazz chord change that’s more advanced, you know, you’re adding just a very small percentage to their overall trajectory. So in that sense, there’s nothing wrong with being a beginner. It’s a really good place to be because there’s more to work on, but so often – especially in our own minds – we judge ourselves about where we’re at, you know. If I can’t do something I feel dumb or I feel like I’m wasting my time or I’m not um worthy of giving it the attention that it really needs. But really, it’s good to be able to flip it and appreciate that, “Wow, I’m in this place and this is the only time I’m going to be in this place ever again with this subject that I’m studying,” which in our case is ʻukulele, “but I have all these things to work on and I know I need to work on them.” And if you realize that might not always be the case, that it might not always be obvious that, “Oh, I need to learn to strum better,” or “I need to learn to change chords better,” you know, you can appreciate it more when when you give yourself the grace to just be a beginner.
Which sort of maybe leads into some practical tips that I can give regarding practice. So if you are a beginner – or if you’re not a beginner. If you’re any level, really – the bottom line is if you want to improve on the ʻukulele, you have to practice. Period. End of story. There’s just no debating that unless you’re, like, an idiot-savant kind of person who’s just naturally gifted and brilliant at music or at the ʻukulele. And certainly I have I have run into a couple people who are like that and it’s just it blows me away every time, and it’s so amazing to see, but the other 99.9% of us have to practice. And a lot of times, practicing itself kind of has a negative stigma because it’s boring, and it’s boring, and it’s boring, right? But it doesn’t have to be and it shouldn’t be. Especially since it’s so important to the outcome of our musicality and of our playing. So when you practice, it’s really good to sit down and kind of have set the intention of the practice time, like, I’m not much of a routine guy so I don’t like sit down and practice, like, “At one o’clock every day I’m going to practice for an hour,” or anything like that. I’m pretty pretty loosey-goosey about it, but I know some people do benefit from that. But what is useful is sitting down and knowing that, okay, whatever time of day it is, this is practice time and for the next 15 minutes or half an hour or an hour, I’m gonna sit here and I’m going to intentionally work on stuff because that’s that’s where you separate practice from playing. And playing is vitally important too. That’s where we kind of get to sandbox the stuff we’re working on and apply it musically, say, like strumming through some songs that you know or picking something that you’re just kind of improvising. These are really important things that you also need to work on. Because you need to remember your songs or practice performing your songs or whatever the kind of end-goal application would be, but it’s not necessarily practice where you’re sitting and working specifically through a skill. And so if you approach a session as a specific practice session as opposed to, “Oh, I’m just jamming, I’m just playing some of my favorite songs,” you can be much more efficient with your time in that 15 minutes or half an hour or hour that you sit down to work on it with.
So in that time, you want to kind of give yourself a few things that you’re going to work on and know know exactly what you’re going to do in that time. Lots of people have like a folder of stuff that they want to practice or they’re working through a book. There are lots of different ways to organize yourself. Anything you do, if you do it intentionally and you practice it well is going to help your playing, but in the big picture, a lot of times it is useful to have, like, maybe one practice session you practice scales and you practice sequencing scales, and in another practice session you work on changing chords or learning new progressions, or working your way through “How can I take this song that I already know and add substitutions to it?” Those are just just some random examples, but by having very different kinds of things that you work on at different times, you’ll be getting the full spectrum of music in your practice sessions as opposed to spending like a whole month working on picking a song where that’s all you’re doing. Which is good, because you’ll learn the song really well, but if you don’t have a background in some of the other things, you’ll be missing out on that as well. So you kind of want to have a well-rounded practice routine and it doesn’t necessarily mean that you do everything every single day, but if you’ve done two or three practice sessions and you haven’t even touched a chord, you know, maybe it’s time to sit down and spend some time working on some progressions or learning some some swing vamps or something along those lines. And vice versa, if all you’re doing is learning a strumming song or really drilling your chord changes between C and G7, maybe it’s time you pick up a C scale and you sit and you drill that for 15 minutes.
To go along with that, lots of people talk about perfect practice. They say “practice makes perfect” but I remember actually Dominator from Dominator Uke Tabs, he would always say that “perfect practice makes perfect.” Because if you’re practicing the wrong thing, then you’re just practicing a mistake, whereas if you practice something intentionally and well, then you’re actually practicing something that’s worth hanging onto and worth keeping. So when you do practice, it’s good to take the time to produce the highest quality drills or to approach things you do practice with the utmost attention to detail.
And that’s not necessarily to say that a beginner should sit down and if they’re drilling going from C to G7 to sit and think about every single aspect of that change like fretting pressure and fretting location and, you know, proper wrist technique and things like that. Because that might be too much for the situation. They might just need to get their fingers doing the muscle memory thing and that might be enough to make it a successful practice session, as if the fingers start automatically going to G7 from C by themselves. Whereas a more advanced player would want to to sit and look at exactly how they’re touching the strings. You kind of go, the more advanced you are, the more of a magnifying glass you put on whatever you’re working on so that it can be better and better and better.
Because that’s another thing that people often don’t think about is that a C chord and a G7 chord, “Oh, that’s easy for an advanced player – a pro never plays C or G7!” And you’d be wrong if you said something like that, because, like I said earlier, the trajectory curve of music is that you have all these foundational things that everybody uses. Everybody plays C and G7. It’s how you play them that makes you an advanced player. And so if you’re Jake or James Hill and you play a C chord, you’re going to be looking at a whole different set of parameters and things that you can do to improve that. And yes, if you’re that advanced you can still improve upon something as simple as a C chord then if you were a beginner and you were just trying to make it happen at all. So that’s something to keep in mind as well, is that the the things that you practice will evolve and will change over time. So if you have a certain drill that you’re doing in your practice routine, say, something along the lines of like a one two three four fret on each string picking drill where you walk up and you play the first fret, second fret, third fret, fourth fret on the A-string and then you go down to the E-string, C-strings and G-string. If you play that, you know, say, six months into your ʻukulele journey, you’re going to practice that with a certain attention to detail, but if you revisit it in two years, you’re going to have a different set of details you’re looking at because your lens will have changed from all the other things you’ve improved at.
Next up for practice would be to create consistent times across a week or across a month. However much time you decide is kind of worth it for your interest in… Is it a hobby? Is it something super serious? You know, what is your goal? Depending on what your goal is and where you want to be, you know, X time in the future, you can change how often you’re practicing to try and reach that goal in a faster or slower amount of time. If you can space out your practice so that it’s consistent, you’re going to be better off playing less more often than more once a week. In a new post that we’ve been working on together and that he wrote, my friend Dagan Bernstein recommended that, I guess, when he teaches his students, he always tells them you should practice however long our lesson was – this is for teaching kids, but applies to most people as well – however long we had a lesson for, you should be practicing at least that much throughout the week. So if you have an hour lesson, you should practice an hour total throughout the week. But what you don’t want to do is play that entire hour the day before the lesson because you freak out that, “Oh, I haven’t practiced! Time to catch up!” It would be way better to space that out into, like, you know, four fifteen minute practice sessions. Because when you do that, you are building on what you worked on the day before or two days before instead of trying to remember what you were doing further on, you know, a week ago. So that really helps, because then you’re not going two steps forward one step back. You can just do one step, one step, one step and you do little bite-sized bits of practice and you keep moving forward as opposed to forgetting things. I feel like humanity and people in general have forgotten way, way more than they have ever learned, just over over the course of civilization and humanity. I think we think of… There are so many different historical instances where civilization has crashed and we’ve lost everything that they had and no one remembers how they operated or the things that they did and we’re, like, re-learning all these things over and over again. And we think, “Oh, we’re learning new things!” But, you know, in reality, we’re probably relearning a whole lot of things that have actually been discovered already.
So don’t don’t spend your time relearning things. Learn them once and keep them fresh by practicing a little bit every day and even if you’re not practicing the same exact drill every day. Like, if you’re spending 15 minutes four times a week, you know, maybe for one of those 15 minutes you practice some picking and then for one of those 15 minutes you practice some chords. Even though you’re not practicing the exact same drill, you know, the drill might fade in your mind a little bit, but the feel for the instrument isn’t going to degrade. You’re not going to pick it up in a week and feel like, “Oh, my ʻukulele is a stranger now.” Because that’s really a big problem is that people will go for a week or a month without ever even picking up the instrument and when they go back to it they’ve lost so much, there’s no rapport left between them and the instrument. So that’s that’s definitely something to avoid by practicing more often.
Something else you could think about doing is setting up a practice space of some sort. I know that for myself when I was kind of in heavy duty improvement mode and practicing a lot and working on those skills, that I had kind of my zone and it was, of course, my bedroom – that’s where a lot of people, especially young people tend to practice because it’s their space and you can make all the mistakes that you would want and not worry about people listening in – but really if there’s any kind of space that you connect to or that has that positive learning kind of vibe to it, that could be really beneficial to your practice session. Instead of just having a random space around the house or a random space outside – wherever you end up practicing – if you have a dedicated spot, you can start kind of building that familiarity with a place and so that you know kind of when you’re in that space, it’s practice time and you know, hopefully, I mean, obviously, hopefully it’s a safe space, but also you can increase your productivity by having all your stuff nearby. Whether it be your practice folder or your books or your tuner – whatever you need to really hone in and get the job done, that’s really nice to have to have nearby. Because if you’re getting up every five minutes to get something new because, “Oh, I need to work on this sheet. I’ve got to go to a bookshelf and pull down the binder with this song or this tab…” then you’re you’re losing time. And especially if you’re on a real crunched schedule trying to fit in 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there, you want to be able to be as efficient as possible and just, you know, go at a hundred percent for those ten minutes instead of having to pause and take time away from that practice by sourcing your resources elsewhere, so to speak.
You can improve the the feel of a space with things like posters. If you have a chord chart, you could put it on the wall. Especially things that you might refer back to often. Instead of even having to pick it up or look for it, you can just have it taped to the wall right in front of your practice space. Or put up an inspirational poster of your favorite band or whatever it might be. It can really be whatever you want it to look like and just having that space that you can always return to and that, you know, like, “Okay, this is my my safe practice spot.”
Hopefully it can be kind of private, like I said with the bedroom thing. That’s a big deal. Is that if you’re in a public space, I mean, hopefully it’s a comfortable thing if you’re there and it’s like a spouse or whatever, in and out and around as you’re practicing and that’s comfortable, great. But if not, it’s really nice to be able to have that privacy to be able to just kind of let loose and to be you in that moment of music. Because if you’re always worried about what other people are thinking, you’re not actually tuning into the job at hand and you’re more judging yourself through the lens of others, which is not super productive.
But a final space tip that people don’t think about is the car. The car. If you have a car, you can sit in it and practice and no one outside will hear you. Because if you think, when you’re rolling down the highway at 70 miles an hour it’s only so loud in the car and they build them that way so that it’s quiet in the car – especially if you have a fancy car then it’s really quiet in the car. And if you play your music in there, no one outside is going to be able to hear you. So that, in that sense, a car is a very safe space to practice and you could, you know, maybe not the posters on the walls, but you could still have a lot of your practice materials there ready to go if that turned into your practice spot.
One of the last main things… I’m sure I’m leaving some things out here, but when you’re practicing, it’s really important to have specific goals and to have a vision of who you want to be as the ʻukulele player of the future. And this is going to be different for everybody. It’s something that you kind of have to sit with and decide for yourself. You know, maybe if you’re an ambitious kid who just loves Jake so much that you want to be able to play some of his songs or maybe you’re interested in being a performing, touring musician. If that is your case, I’m very sorry right now, because, well, it’s a good time to be practicing for that in the future, but it’s going to be a while before the gigs come back online. But if you’re a beginner or you’re just in it for fun, maybe you just appreciate being able to make music at all and, you know, maybe your enjoyment would benefit from the practicing of being able to transpose so that you can sing your favorite songs in a key that works for your voice, that would be a good goal for somebody who is kind of on the lower – I shouldn’t say lower that’s again stigmatizing; I apologize – if you’re a beginner, then being able to put that goal out there, that’s something simple and attainable and something that you can chart a path to really, then go for it, make it happen, figure out what you need to do and work backwards from there.
So for instance, if you do want to be able to transpose to a key that you can sing in easier, you know, what do you need to know? You need to know some basic theory. So you could spend some of your practice time learning basic theory, teaching yourself that. You’re going to need to know, eventually, hopefully you would have it in your head but you need to understand how keys work and what the differences are between keys and how the number system works of assigning a number to each note in the key so that when you change keys, the numbers stay the same, but the notes change because you’re in a new key. And eventually you need to know the chords of the key that you’re coming from, obviously, but also the key that you’re going to. And so by breaking it down into bite-sized chunks, now we have four or five different things that you can sit and work on that are kind of all pieces of transposing. And if transposing by itself is too daunting, you can work on just one little piece of it.
And this is really where I feel like a teacher could be, you know, maybe even more useful than normal – I know I never really studied ʻukulele with a teacher so I’m not one to say like, “Oh, you need a teacher,” because I, you know, I had mentors along the way and I had some heavy, heavy teaching but it wasn’t a consistent thing and I never really had, like, a teacher that I went to with my questions. So in that sense, you know, I believe that anybody can teach themselves, but especially as a beginner when you’re not sure actually, you’re not even sure what you need to do to get the outcome, then it’s useful to refer to somebody who’s who can give you the steps and tell you like, “Oh you want to be able to transpose? You need to be able to do this, this, and this.” And to break it down into those bite-sized pieces kind of for you, so that you don’t have to just wonder. Because a lot of times, when you’re starting out, you’re just wondering what you might need to do to get to that end goal. It’s like, “Oh, I want to learn to transpose. I guess I just need to learn how to transpose.” And that’s taking too big of a bite.
So I think getting towards kind of the end here of this first trial podcast, if you will. I’m not exactly sure what my goal time is going to be with these. I know that in everything I’ve read about creating a podcast, you want to try and have a consistent length of time, but I’m sure it will change as we move our way down the road.
But the last thing is how people tend to improve. And this is all just, I mean, of course, everything is just my opinion, but especially this is just my observation. Especially when I was going through the Institute of Hawaiian Music back in 2012-2013. I went to do kind of a trade program as a year and a half program at UH Maui College over on Maui and I moved to Maui for a year and a half and we played Hawaiian music. That was the entire program was classes on Hawaiian language so we could sing the songs better. And on theory, and, I mean, the most, the most amazing thing for me was the practical performing lessons that we all learned just through gigging. We played tons and tons of shows for fundraisers for the program and just any time anybody called anybody about, “Hey, we needed some guys to play a show,” either Uncle George or Keola Donaghy would would line us up and we’d go play. So we played hundreds of gigs. And it was great. Because we had all this hands-on, practical practice of being able to perform and play Hawaiian music. And what I learned throughout my time there… I didn’t feel like my skills really improved as a player, even though we were playing Hawaiian music all the time – and any kind of music all the time – we were always jamming. I was a roommate with one of the guys in the program for a while and, you know, even outside of class just, like, every day we’d be jamming and working on different stuff and trying things and experimenting. And despite all of that, I never felt like my skills really improved that much. I didn’t feel like I was much that much of a better player across that year and a half. Which I thought was really interesting because we were playing all the time. But, you know, some time after I got home, probably a year or two after the program ended and I moved back to Big Island, I realized that, even though my skills maybe weren’t improving super visibly, my consistency was. And I realized that all the time I was putting in – even if the skills weren’t improving, my ability to play something well more times than not was climbing rapidly. So, you know, maybe you could play at the beginning of the program – we were playing gigs that no doubt were terrible and I’m sorry for anybody who had to listen to us in those early days, because I’ve gone back and seen some of the videos it’s like, “Oh, right. We’ve come a long ways.” You know, maybe we would have five major goof ups in the entire 45 minute gig, where we’re, like, super lost or super bombed on a solo or super sang the words wrong, whatever it might have been. But towards the end of the program when we were playing gigs, it was so much more natural that we could we could just go and stomp it and, you know, very few mistakes if there were any mistakes and despite the skill maybe being similar-ish, that amount of consistency is what brought the quality to the playing and I feel like, on the outside, not improving skillfully is a bit disappointing, but when you realize that if you are playing, your consistency is improving. So even if you’re kind of stuck in a rut, keep playing and keep practicing because things are improving, even if you can’t really notice them on a short time scale. In a year, if you look back, because even though maybe it wasn’t obvious that the skills were improving, the consistency probably was. And so, because of that, you know, that was one of one of my biggest takeaways from the program. Kind of that I came to realize afterwards was that, “Wow, the consistency is really important because now I can go up on stage and – even if I’m not that much of a better ʻukulele player – I can still go and I can play a better show because I’m more consistent with the notes that I play or the chords that I play or the words that I sing.” And again, that’s what separates the really great players – you know, I’m not including myself in there. I’m talking like James Hill and Jake – when they go to a show, because they’ve played so much more, their consistency is so much higher they can play those songs perfectly every single time just because they’ve done them a lot, whereas in the earlier days maybe the skills haven’t improved that much or you wouldn’t be losing that much of a skill set if you go back in time to earlier phases of those artists life, but I would kind of assume, or guess, that, you know, their consistency wasn’t as good. That maybe they had good shows and bad shows whereas now, most shows are good because even if it’s a bad day, the music has been played so much that it’s it’s more consistent.
Thank you so much for listening. This is kind of a trial run here getting started with this podcast thing. I would love to hear your feedback on what you think of the content and ideas for future episodes. I definitely have a long list of ideas that I’ve already put together because I wouldn’t be starting this if I didn’t know that I could keep it going. That’s my goal here is I think we’re going to go every other week, publish a new a new episode. Not sure the day yet, the day will be decided by the time you hear this [1st and 3rd Saturdays], but I hope it’s useful for people and I like the opportunity to kind of bring the thinking side of music – and not thinking like theory or not the math side of music – kind of like the the more intangible stuff. They’re just kind of, like, you know, it’s my theories. My non-theory theories on playing ʻukulele.
We don’t actually have a sponsor yet, but this video is – not to his knowledge – sponsored by UkeLogic Strings, which are my current strings I’m running on my instrument. I want to give a shout out to Joel over at Hawaiʻi Music Supply who’s putting these packs together. They are a fluorocarbon. It’s kind of pink-tinged in color and he’s doing a really great job. He has a lot of background to pull from with all of his years setting up ʻukuleles for Andrew Kitakis over at Hawaiʻi Music Supply and he’s taken that and put it towards developing his own line of strings. And so, sound wise, I’ve played Worth for over a decade and from Worth they’re a little bit more meaty and punchy but they’re still fluorocarbon so they still have that chimey, bright kind of articulate sound, but it brings in a little bit more of an kind of oomph, which I really like. So I’ve been playing those and checking them out. I’ve got a video on my Youtube channel a little bit more about them and how I swapped out one of the strings to get a little bit better rounded set, in my opinion. But Joel’s a super nice guy. He’d be happy to have your business and if you have any questions about it, I’m sure he could help answer them and hook you up with the right set for your playing style. But yeah, gonna give a shout out to UkeLogic Strings. They’re doing some some good stuff over there on the island of Oʻahu. So yeah, props to Joel for kind of fulfilling feeling the need for a real, super boutique ʻukulele string.
Once again, my name is Brad. I’ll catch you in the next episode. Please check out Live ʻUkulele.com if you feel like supporting what I’m doing here. On the website you can check out some of my ebooks. Otherwise, just listening is enough and I appreciate that. So I will see you two weeks from now in the next episode.