S2E1 – Playing Ukulele Happier and Easier with Konabob

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In this episode Konabob and I reflect on the journey of music and how to make it more intuitive and rewarding. He shares some of his experiences in coming to music in his 40s and adapting his mindset to keep his spirits up while making each musical moment one to treasure.

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Transcript:

Edited for clairity

Aloha! Welcome to the Live Ukulele Podcast; the very first episode of 2021. 2020 is finally behind us. This is the beginning of season two of the Live Ukulele Podcast. Season one was a great start. I had a lot of fun interviewing a number of my good friends and talented musicians, ukulele players, and hopefully shared some tips with you folks and helped you fill some of your time and bring you some enjoyment.

This first episode features one of my very first mentors and friends in music. He was always sort of a guiding light to me and my friends as we were learning to play and always incredibly encouraging and comes from kind of a humble music background, which I believe you’ll hear about in the interview. But just such a kind, kind man who was always happy to help us learn to jam and learn music and learn to speak it as a language, but also as a language of enjoyment, of jus,t you know, inclusiveness and bringing everybody together and just having a good time playing music. And this interview was recorded on my birthday last year actually because I thought, there’s nobody in the world I would rather talk to on my birthday than Konabob Stoffer.

Konabob actually invented the Walkingbass, which is a three string nylon string bass. It’s kind of an upright fretless bass, but tuned to an open tuning so it’s very accessible for people who aren’t very experienced with music. And he brought this bass into many different homes of folks that hadn’t had musical experience in the past, but he taught them how to play the Walkingbass and got them started in music. He’s also a steel guitar player. He plays with just a lovely touch for Hawaiian music and he was always kind of the decoration man at different jams I’d go to; it’s like, you know, “take a solo, Konabob!” and he’d go off and and play a lovely steel guitar solo.

He’s actually not really an ukulele player, but just because of who he is and how he sort of speaks this common language between all people and helps them get over their insecurities and just really encourages them to jump into the music, I feel like Konabob is a very appropriate person to talk to on this podcast. So I hope you enjoy hearing what he has to share as much as I enjoyed hearing it.

We had a little bit of trouble with ZOOM dropping out on us a couple times so you’ll hear the original mic’d audio pop in from time to time to cover those holes. Otherwise, I present to you my good friend and mentor, Mr. Konabob Stoffer.

KB: Well let me tell you, this has been from the very beginning of the year, the most interesting year I have ever experienced. And you know, sometimes just because something is hard doesn’t mean it’s bad. It’s been a hard year I know for a lot of people. Um, perhaps because I retired uh this year it wasn’t so rough on me, but uh at the beginning of the year in March, the first week of March was Aloha Music Camp, which I’ve been the production manager for about a dozen years. And it’s been great. I get to play with a lot of good musicians and uh… You know Herb Ohta, I’m sure?

BB: Mmm hmm…

KB: Yeah, we would sneak off the little rooms and play music together. It was fun. But uh let’s see… So okay… So we got to Aloha Music Camp and one of the things that happened that was the most fascinating thing; Keola wanted to do something very special and it just turned out that Paul Simon of Simon and Garfunkel had moved to Maui and they had made a connection. So he invited Paul Simon to come to Aloha Music Camp – it was over on Kauaʻi. Paul Simon shows up – I was the one that went to the airport to pick him up. That was kind of cool… Anyway, he gave a talk and a demonstration for the whole camp. He talked about guitars and how he writes songs, he talked about something he always likes, and I had never thought about this, but he said his favorite chords have the third of the chord on the top.

BB: Highest or lowest?

KB: The highest note in the chord is the third on most of his really favorite chords. So I’m passing that along…. I’ve been fooling around with that too. It’s kind of fun.

But one of the things that he said that was really interesting, he said that he is no longer looking at himself as a musician. He said, I look at music as what got me to where I am right now. And he said, if I continue to do music fine, if I don’t continue to do music fine. I am what I am – or something of that nature. It was just beautiful and, you know, it struck a lot of us. Certainly I saw myself as a musician for a certain part of my life and before that I was like an aspiring musician and before that I was a wannabe musician uh and before that I didn’t even have a clue, you know, I just listened to records. So now I can see what he was talking about. I’ve gone through all these different parts of my life and now this – with COVID – it made it very easy. I just was like, no, I’m not going to go play at bars. I’m not going to go at restaurants where people are, you know, coming in and everything like that. For a while I was still seeing many of my musician friends trying to keep up the life. You know, playing at bars, uh traveling to Oʻahu to perform, coming back. And several of them did catch the virus. Fortunately none of them that I know died of the virus. But I certainly um… I see myself as just a guy who’s enjoying his life trying to keep it simple. How’s that?

BB: That is so perfect. And that’s one of the things I’ve always admired about you is from the beginning, and I’m sure, you know, we’re all on our journey so I’m sure you’ve come a ways, but even from when we first met you always seemed so content and happy with what you had and what you were doing. I first met Konabob at Keoki Kahumoku’s workshop down in Pahala, Hawaiʻi or so – somewhere thereabouts. That’s when we first really started spending some extended time together and hanging out. And he was playing his Walkingbass – it’s just a three three string stick bass tuned to a major chord, and that was very accessible for people who weren’t really musicians to just jump in and start playing some simple bass lines. And he also played steel guitar as his two main instruments. But just throughout hanging with him, he was always so encouraging to everybody who would drop by and be part of his classes or part of his jam sessions. Just like, really zero judgment and such a safe space that you don’t see a whole lot. I mean, even in the Hawaiian music context which it’s so welcoming to everybody, you kind of took it up another level of just trying to share with everybody the fact that, you know, just playing a straight steel bar chord across all the strings can be so fulfilling if you just enjoy it the right way.

KB: That’s very interesting. I wonder if because I came to music late in my life – I don’t think I started playing really… I didn’t start playing the steel guitar until I was like 42 or something like that. And certainly before that I… Though I played the harmonica, I didn’t consider that a viable instrument. Sorry to those of you who play the harmonica. But um it wasn’t till late in my life that I started performing. So I know what it’s like to feel the desire to jump in and have fun and play music. And certainly back there at Keoki’s camp it was uh just fascinating to see all these young people come in and just really jump in there with both feet and just… Even when there were no classes going on, you guys were always running around playing your chords and uh sitting in little groups playing your chords and stuff.

Oh, I was going to say, when you hold up your hand – hold up your hand!

BB: Which one?

KB: Either one – doesn’t matter. I was just trying to remember… Yeah oh, you know, okay. It wasn’t you I was thinking of, it was your friend Isaac who had such long, skinny fingers – kind of like jeff peterson, the guitarist – and I was like, man, what an advantage he has. Although when I thought about it further, it’s like the people that have the real advantage are the people like yourself who really have a love for music in your heart and it really pulls you in and I’m so grateful that that happened to me.

BB: I feel like a lot of times folks who are playing have kind of high expectations for themselves. Have you ever experienced that yourself and what has been your kind of problem solving to work through that and just be happy with what you do play and what you can play?

KB: Yes, okay, all right. So the guy that taught me or got me started – he wasn’t actually a teacher, but I went up and asked him about the steel guitar – Ken Emerson. Probably one of the most fantastic steel guitar players anyone would ever meet. I would listen to him play, I would hear myself play and I’d be like, oh man, there are miles between us. He is so good and I am such a beginner. But I would play with uh my friends which is this group of uh Hawaiian kupuna – the elders – who would hang out at the shopping center and they would play five or six different songs. That’s all they knew was those five or six songs. Every one of them was in the key of C, which made it easy for me. But I would sit behind them with my steel guitar and try to find things that sounded good. Every once in a while the little old lady would turn around look at me and go, “Turn it up, Bobby, turn it up!” And so I turn it up. And after a while, you know, people would come over and they’d be like really happy to hear the steel guitar. And finally one day I said to myself, you know, you don’t have to be as good as Ken Emerson. He has a style; he started when he was in his teens. You have a style; you started when you’re in your 40s. It would be very unlikely that you would develop the same qualities that he does. And I didn’t. But I gave myself uh a little pep talk. I said, when you play people seem to be happy. They like what you’re playing. So you’ve got that Konabob sound and people seem to like it. From that point on it was like, okay I’ve got my own sound, people like it, what more can I ask from life?

BB: Right. That’s such a profound leap and I wish that for anybody who’s playing music to be able to get to that place of just yes this is what I do, for better or for worse, right?

KB: So I’ll tell you one other thing. A defining moment in my musical career. I started, I made that bass, I invented that bass, and I started playing it. I had a terrible sense of rhythm so I relied on the ukulele player and I would always hang out with ukulele players that had a very solid sense of rhythm – and fortunately in Hawaiian music that is not rare. Most Hawaiian musicians have a fairly good sense of rhythm – I think because Hawaiian music doesn’t have drums. And often they don’t even have a bass player. But so there’s a sense of rhythm and I hung around these guys.

My sense of rhythm got better and better and better and at one point I was down on Aliʻi Drive at Fisherman’s Wharf or whatever that thing with the big blue building, big blue roof building. We were playing. Shirley was playing fiddle, I was playing bass, and uh Bobby Konanui was playing ukulele and singing. And as I was playing I looked around and I noticed some people watching us and things like that and then I looked back over and finally I realized, I wasn’t thinking about the bass. My hand was playing it for me. I was looking around, my awareness was out here, but there was some other part of my awareness that wasn’t the same that was doing all the music. And it was perfect. It was like good rhythm and that moment of wow. Wow, if you get comfortable enough and you let your body do the work, it will do the work.

And I think really this is how, you know, really good musicians that… Their body will just do whatever their mind is able to come up with. You know for yourself. You know if in your mind you hear an amazing run, your hands will just do it for you you don’t really have to study it. You know move by move your hands will do it for you and I think that is a fascinating thing.

BB: Yeah, it is. Because that’s, for the most part, as a teacher, that’s where you’re trying to get your students is to that place of comfort. And it’s so simple and easy, but at the same time it’s as complex as the human mind. So it’s like, how in the world would you ever break it down?

KB: Yes, well I am fortunate in that years ago, maybe I was 20 years old, I started practicing meditation. I found a group that didn’t seem to be particularly religiously oriented, they were just meditation oriented and liked studying the mind and working to understand how the mind works and the different parts of the mind and… It wasn’t a matter of studying it with by reading books or understanding, but it was a matter of doing meditation to the point where after a while you start going, oh yeah, look at that, your mind it just keeps going along, going along, and there’s another part of you that can just watch it as it goes along, goes along, goes along. If you can make that separation, then it’s the same thing with having your body playing the bass while your mind watches it play the bass. Isn’t that interesting?

BB: Yeah. How would you recommend somebody who is interested in that incorporate the two practices? Is it possible? Because I know you’ve, you know, obviously worked on this for many, many, many years, but for somebody who might be starting out and feeling like, gee I can’t just get there, get to that comfort level the normal way.

KB: Easy. The easy way to start is just to make yourself sit down for 10 minutes. And tell yourself I’m not going to move for 10 minutes. During that 10 minutes you just watch what your mind goes into. Just watch it. It’s like, oh I’m thinking about, I just caught myself thinking about what I’m going to do when I stand back up, oh I just thought myself what I’m going to do to have dinner tonight. You think of these little things and then you draw back so that you start understanding there’s the part of your mind that is diddling around here – what the Buddhists usually refer to as the “monkey mind” – and then there’s this part of your mind that stands back and watches it. If you can make that for 10 minutes do that for a month, you’d be surprised. Kick it up to 15 minutes, see what happens.

BB: That’s great. It’s so simple. Usually you think of meditation as being some really complex thing you have to, like, train and condition for, but that seems very accessible.

KB: It is quite accessible and it’s really the heart of that. It’s the heart of meditation. I mean I’ve heard the Dalai Lama talk about it, I’ve heard uh lots of different teachers talk about it. And you know, this relates to music in the way that I mentioned. The ability to watch yourself from a higher place as you play your music. When you can’t do that, you’re afraid. It’s because you’re afraid that… You won’t let yourself take risks on that fretboard, you won’t be a good musician because you’re afraid. To get over the fear you have to not be afraid of your mind.

BB: That’s classic. I find sometimes that the fear actually comes like later when you realize, oh my gosh, I just played that whole thing and I watched myself do it without any trying, right? There’s zero effort, you’re just kind of doing it on autopilot and that moment where you kind of snap out of it and you realize what has passed – I mean obviously you want to try and ride it as far as possible – but then in that moment it’s like… It’s kind of like, you know, you know when you slip on something and your body goes straight and you try and stand up straight for some reason? That’s kind of what it feels like when you’re on stage and you you’re riding that wave and then you realize you’re riding that wave. And it’s like, oh, but it was fine before! Why can’t it be fine still?

KB: Yeah, well that’s exactly what I was talking about. You exactly matched what I was talking about. The most amazing part of music is not coming from… Well, I mean, we all start out looking at a piece of paper and strumming chords and trying to play along. Okay, that’s music level 101. At a certain point you get to the point where you can strum and play without the piece of paper. And lord knows, some of us take years to get to that point. But that’s giving up or relaxing one part of you – the part of you that wants to have the visual feedback of the piece of paper, right? The next level is you you start realizing the chord is not just a chord, but it’s a bunch of notes and that you can fool around with those notes, right? You can say, well I’m going to leave that one out. How does that sound? Or, I’m going to add another one in and see, how does that sound? And then it becomes really exciting. But then the next level up… And that’s learning to give up the idea that a song is a bunch of chords – it’s not. A song is way more than that. A really good song will take you right out of yourself. I mean, you’ve heard a song that just makes your spirit soar. It’s like, those are the rare moments and when that happens, when you can play like that, it’s because you’ve gotten out of the way. Your higher nature comes shining through and, my god, how did he do that?

BB: Well, that’s fabulous stuff that I don’t think gets nearly enough attention from people who are playing the… Something that I often get frustrated with is the attachment to the paper with people I’m teaching. They like, they can’t focus until you give them a handout, right, and they’re so… but I’ve found over the years that the times when I teach something without the handout – “I’ll give it to you later, I promise” – and I teach it to them and they learn to play it and they’re working with their ears more than their eyes is that they play it better and then you give them the handout and it all goes off the rails.

KB: Right.

BB: Which is super fascinating to me and then if you take it kind of that next level is the getting out of the way part where you just let it happen. Do you feel that comes only once you’ve developed the skill quite a ways? Or is that a place that even a beginner can find?

KB: Oh, a beginner can fall into it. I have started using this trick when I’ve got a beginner. I teach them D7 and C, D7 and C. And we’ll do eight strums of D7, eight strums of C. We’ll just go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And then when they are doing the D7 and C I start noodling around and then we switch. I do the D7 and C and I let them noodle around and then they’re, like, nervous at first, very nervous. But, you know, you do that for 20 minutes at a time and by the end of that time they’re discovering, even if I make a mistake, I can get right back on track on the next beat and it’s going to sound really great. I always tell them, look, this is how the Grateful Dead made all of their money. They just played two chords on… Most of their songs are two chord jams and they are just so much fun to get into.

BB: And so the fear goes away just from like the brute force of comfort in the environment of music?

KB: If it’s only two chords and you know, your body will feel when it’s time to go back and forth, back and forth. You can’t get lost. With a three chord song, it’s more complex. You’re like, oh am I going to the F or am I going to the G? Oh I don’t know what to do! And they’ll freeze up. So you stick with a two chord song. And if it’s a jam, then there’s nothing that can be wrong because it’s their jam. They’re not trying to be somebody else. They’re themselves.

BB: And that’s something that, even if you don’t have a jam buddy, you can do yourself these days pretty easily with like a voice memo on your phone. You could record yourself playing for five or ten minutes – playing the chords – and then you listen back and play along with yourself.

KB: Excellent, that’s a great thing. That’s a great thing.

BB: Have you read The Music Lesson by Victor Wooten?

KB: No. I met Victor when he was in Waimea. I haven’t read his book. I’m sure it’s great. He’s such a fascinating guy. He’s very friendly and he was fascinated with the three-string bass, but I think he was like, uh, it’s cool, but there’s not enough strings for me to do what I want to do. And uh… Oh, Nathan Aweau said to me, “Would you make me a five string bass?” I was like, “Sorry, brah, that’s not what I do.” Anyway, tell me about Victor.

BB: Well, he’s put together this book – it was probably 10 or more years ago that he wrote this – but he wrote… It’s basically like a fiction book, but it’s sort of… It’s like about a version of himself learning kind of the things that you’ve been talking about in music from kind of a spiritual, Eastern standpoint of, not necessarily the notes and the motions that you use to play, but all the kind of the behind the scenes, back mind stuff. And each chapter is dedicated to a certain facet of music and he has a teacher, Michael, who comes and guides him to these different things and he meets different people who are skilled at different parts of music. It’s just very heartwarming and fascinating to kind of see all the stuff that’s never talked about. And stuff that’s so important and doesn’t get the attention because people are, you know, they’re used to learning notes or chords off of a sheet of paper and that’s fine, but there’s also like what you do with those notes and chords on the paper and how you express them and the dynamics and the technique and the flow of everything. And he also talks about music as being kind of like a living thing. So anytime like in the book when music is mentioned it’s always capital M. You know, Music herself, kind of a thing. It just strikes me as something that you would enjoy.

KB: I’m sure. You made me think of something that um… For me, you know, it’s been years since I really sat down and listened to music, I’m sorry to say. If I’m not playing music with somebody else, I’m not getting to stretch that part of myself that likes to separate. So I mean, if I sit down and listen to music – it’s true you can separate in a certain way where a really good piece of music can lift you out of yourself in a certain way, but uh it’s not your spiritual muscles doing the work, it’s their spiritual muscles lifting you up, right? But if you sit down and play music with somebody who you’re really in in tune with… And musicians… You know, I’ve met many, many musicians and now I feel when I meet a musician and I start playing with them, I feel like, am I in tune with this person? Are we really connecting? Or is it kind of like two guys just playing in chairs next to each other without any real connection? There is such a difference. I’m sure you know this to be the case. Yeah and when you are in tune with somebody uh there’s a magic that really uh is just splendid and it makes the music splendid. And oh, I could just talk about that for a long time.

BB: Well that seems like it’s something that builds over time as you play with somebody. Like I’ve noticed that with certain musicians where you first play with them and you’re kind of like butting heads – especially with like timing kinds of stuff because you don’t know their feel and you don’t know where they’re going – but if you play with somebody for a couple years, you know, you get to a point where it’s just like putting on a glove. You know, like Isaac comes home from school and we’ll get together and jam and it’s so easy. It’s just like, you know, it’s like steering a canoe and being in a canoe team with him and you just hop right back in and you’re so used to that. You can make music so easily when you have a person like that.

KB: I’m very grateful that you’re playing uh with Isaac. I really thought he was a very sensitive man. Both of you guys have a sensitivity that always impressed me. So I’m glad you’re playing together.

BB: Yeah. He’s out in Purdue, Indiana going to school. He’s in the PhD program for English.

KB: Wow, that’s amazing!

BB: Yeah. It’s like, I don’t really get what he’s doing out there because he comes home and I play with him and it’s like, you know, there’s no one I would rather play with. This is my guy. He’s in my band except he doesn’t live here.

KB: Yeah. That’s so cool.

There’s a video on Youtube of me playing “Little Village Church” or a “Church in a Small Hawaiian Town” you know that… Anyway, I’m playing with Eke Kekauoha. We had only been playing a few times and I just happened to turn on my recording device – I think it was my phone – and we sat down and we started playing it. It sounds like we’ve practiced it for a long time. There’s a lot of really good music on that track. It just happened to come through us and I think it was because he and I just had a certain ability to connect on an emotional level um and I don’t really understand why. I haven’t been playing with him for years because…eventually he became fascinated with loopers. And it’s a recording that I just happened to… It was before our regular gig, we just sat down, nobody was there. I turned on my phone and we just recorded it and we had not practiced. It was just because of the type of guitarist he was and the type of steel guitarist I was, the music just joined together and sounded just fabulous to me. But it was one of those magic moments when uh because we weren’t in front of an audience maybe, maybe we were just glad to be there and it was a beautiful relaxing thing by the ocean, we made some nice music. I’ve always enjoyed that track.

BB: Nice. Well I recall along with your many talents of getting people started in music that you had a way of getting people engaged and in time easier than maybe other teachers would. I’m not quite sure how you would do it because it seems to me that timing is one of the main things that people struggle with when they’re getting into music. Because they’re so excited they want to rush everywhere. I was just yeah just wondering what your thoughts were on on cultivating a positive rhythm.

KB: Yeah, I’m thinking that like, one of the first songs that I down at Keoki’s thing, one of the first songs that I always would start people out on the bass with was my ripoff of the Hank Williams song, “Goodbye Joe” Right, two chords again: C and G. Okay, so the bass player only had to learn to put his finger down on the C line and take it off to play the G line. And because it’s got a rhythm and everybody knows the song inherently because it’s been around forever, it made it very easy. And because it’s got a strong rhythm, it was easy for everybody to join in. And remember, there would be like 10, 12 people there jamming away. With it with a good bass player, it gives a group of ukuleles an advantage um, I think. Which is one of the reasons I was so excited to uh start making those things and trying to get them out to ukulele groups. And I think, you know, 90 percent of the ones I made went to either ukulele groups or husband and wife that played ukulele.

The ukulele and the bass are so far apart from each other in the scale, you know, ukulele is way up there and the bass is way down there, they’re never in each other’s way and uh it makes it quite easy for them to play along together. One of the other things I learned as a bass player was there’s a tremendous amount of power in being a bass player. You play bass too, don’t you?

BB: Just enough to fake it.

KB: Okay. If you’re with a group of people and you’re playing bass uh and somebody’s trying tries to drift off the rhythm, the bass player will not let it happen. If the bass player keeps his rhythm, that person who’s speeding up will slow back down or the person who’s slowing down will speed back up, just because the bass is there at the bottom and your body responds to base in a way that your conscious mind may not even be aware of. Which is why – and it’s the same with drums – I mean, you can’t imagine going someplace to have a big dance party and the band not having a drum, right, or a good solid bass? Because the physical body likes those low notes, the mind likes the high notes. When you’re when you go to see a concert, your mind is listening to the lyrics and listening to the the lead guitar show off and do his stuff, meanwhile your body is dancing to the bass and the drum. They’re two separate parts of the mind and it’s fascinating to experience that as a bass player.

BB: So what can an ukulele player do to better sync up with a bass or the rest of the band. Because you’ve spent lots of time trying to rope ukulele players into your timing as the bass player, and in a way you’d, like you said, you have that power and it’s easy but I’m sure…

KB: The easy thing for the bass player is by doing a walk up or a walk down, it’s telling subliminal messages to the ukulele players exactly when to hit the next chord. Because you hear the G, A, B you know that the next thing is you better be on that C right when that bass player hits that C. So walk ups and walk downs. And that’s something also that uh an ukulele player, if you’re doing a lead, you can also lead other ukulele players by your walk-ups and walk-downs because it lets the other person know what’s coming. It’s harder with the high notes because they’re listening to that with their mind. With the low notes they’re listening to it with their body. For real. It’s amazing.

BB: It’s very true. It’s like when the doctor taps on your knee with the hammer and it goes *bloop*.

KB: That’s right.

BB: Just like, gotta change that chord because the bass is telling me to.

KB: Yes that’s right. So what can the ukulele player do? The ukulele player can try tapping their foot. That’s always been… Bob Brozman told me that years ago it’s like, if you don’t have some part of your physical body moving, it will be a lot harder for you to keep the rhythm. He said, of course, for a steel guitar player if you’ve got your guitar on your lap and you’re tapping your foot it’s going to make it hard on you to play the steel guitar, but the ukulele it’s very easy. You tap your foot, your ukulele playing will always sync up much more correctly with the rest of the band.

BB: Well that’s great. Lots of things for for people to chew on and think about.

KB: That’s great. I really enjoyed talking to you, Brad. You’re a real inspiration.

BB: Well, I’m glad I get to share your wisdom with my people. Because growing up kind of in your safe area of just jamming music and all the encouragement you always gave us was so, you know, inspiring and powerful and empowering for us up and comers to, like, you know, just play. Just get out of your own way and play some music.

KB: Okay, now here’s something. Let me ask you this. Do you ever ask yourself, what is my life going to be like five years from now?

BB: Every once in a while.

KB: Yeah, I think if… The more you do that, the more prepared you are when that next five years comes through. So what will music be like in five years? Let’s say COVID disappears. Are we’re gonna be doing exactly what we did last year or will it have moved on to something else? Will people be so hungry to get out of their houses that uh live music will become a thing again? Wouldn’t that be sweet?

BB: That would be awesome. It seems like ZOOM has has opened up a lot of new opportunities as well and people realizing that… You know, I never see you and then kind of COVID and the podcast has given us an excuse to like catch up on this interview. I think there are lots of moments like that that we have been given that we wouldn’t have picked up on before.

KB: All right, well, I, you know, circling back to the beginning of Paul Simon saying my music has gotten to me where I am right now. This moment I am who I am in a large part because of how music got me to the place where I am right now. But does that mean that I am tied into being a musician and just doing what I’ve always done or is there something else coming? You never know.

BB: You never know.

KB: You never know.

BB: Just gotta stay tuned and keep on keeping on.

KB: All right, brah.

BB: Okay. Good to see you, Kona.

KB: All right. Take care, Brad. Thanks so much for inviting me.

BB: Be sure to subscribe to the Live Ukulele Podcast on your favorite podcast subscription service: Apple Podcasts or iHeartRadio or Anchor, whatever you choose to use and you can also listen to it on liveukulele.com if none of that is your cup of tea. A new show is published on the first and third Saturdays of the month. I’m going to continue that tradition through this new year. I hope it finds you in good health and happiness and joyful music. I’ll see you in the next episode. Be safe out there, take care of one another, and keep playing those ukuleles. Aloha.